yea i doubt you'd wanna deal with a ACT full race clutch on your 25 minute stop and go commute to work

i know i wouldnt.

 

I think you either have a daily driver OR a race car. I am sure there are cars that CAN be driven on the street, but are tuned to run on the track and not for commuting purposes. Plus "race" cars have drastic weight reductions(one seat, no A/C, no interior, light weight frame & body). Your car wouldnt even be comfortable to drive! Thats the reason for a daily driver, to be comforatble. I guess there is a medium between fast and comfortable, but full out race cars are something totally different.
just my 2 cents.

 

Personally I feel people put to much emphases and concern into a cars label.

A label is just a label, does it make a huge difference wiether or not your car is a true race car, if it fullfils all your desires in a car? No, it really doesn't.

Some people get bent out of shape on what a true sports car, or a true race car really is.. "It has to be stripped, unstreetable, rwd, etc,etc". But I say it doesn't matter, if you can take it to a road cource and compete with cars that everyone would agree is a race car, then the details don't matter.

I say if you want to consider your car a race car, then go for it. Its not going to hurt anyone, and if you are unrealistic about your cars performance then you are only going to disapoint yourself when it becomes apparent.

Not so much race car specific, but I alot of domestic drivers like to put down import owners by claiming "You can't turn your economy car into a sports car." Basicly implying most hondas are not sports cars, so don't try. Yet it is these economy cars (civics, integras, etc) that I see time and time again getting better AutoX times than most of the american V8's. Further, I see plenty of imports at the drag strips that can compeat and beat these V8's as well. So if performance doesn't designate weither or not your car is race/sport/etc, then honestly the label holds no value to me. Its labeling a car for superfical reasons.

 

It depends what you mean by "Race". If you mean throwing a few bolt ons and dropping your car then it can be a commuter too...but I will admit my exhaust cat, and intake make long trips with company a pain in the ass because of the noise. My metal shift knob freezes my hand when I shift in the morning/night (not really a race mod...but still a mod), and to pick up my girlfriend at her school the other day I had to get her to walk across the street to dairy queen because I couldn't make it over the speedbumps. (only I 1.8 in drop on 15" tires.) These are about as small as performance mods go and they make driving a real hassle sometimes...making a true race car IMO would be intolerable.

 

Styleteg just about summed it up for me.

 

My definition of a "race car" would be a car that could only race. I could take ANY car out to the strip and beat her down the 1/4 mile. In that case, that would make any car a race car. Perhaps we need to come to an agreement on a new standardized terminology.

I think a race car ought to be something minus anything to idle, emissions, noise, etc. I think the engine package should be examined. For instance, a 2.0 liter b18c1 with reinforced sleeves, 14.0:1 static CR, VTEC Killer cams, a narrow-ass LSA, bigass plenum, bigass header collector, no means of filtering emissions, powerband from hell with no guts below it, etc. would make a race car for me because all it can do is race.

 

racecar is still racecar if you spell it backwards.

if it's raced it's a racecar. if you drive it to work, it's a commuter. you can probably drive a F1 car accross the country on I-80 if you really wanted, but it's still a race car. you can also take your mom's station wagon autocrossing... i dunno. who really cares? i both drag and autocross my car as well as cruise around and show it... i have know idea what to call it... it's just my car that i have fun with.

 

who really cares? well, when you start buying very expensive race-only parts (like $800-1200 cams/valvesprings sets and $900-1300 headers with a $600-900 exhaust, or a complete piston/rod rebuild at $1000-1500...without even discussing installation labor charges yet) and then try to drive it every day, you start caring.

this isn't a label issue...it's a very practical one and it relates to people's mind sets.

it's like the beginner who comes onto the board thinking 13's are easy and a matter of buying parts and as you accumulate parts the faster you go.

well, I just see a lot of people wanting to run low 13's and then not later being surprised that their engine has to be rebuilt in 30,000 miles after dropping in race-only parts.

 

If my pockets were that deep wich i am working at,I would build a car that everyone would not even think of questioning wether it was a race car and i would drive it on the street whenever i choose too and get this i would drive it like a race car.
However the pockets aint that deep yet but get this im still building a race car car i said so and get this i'll still drive it like a racecar.If you think about it when you stat adding on performance parts or"Hi=PRO" parts as me and my buds like to call them, then guess what youve got a racecar.And i will tell you why it is simply becuase you inteend to race it.
Think about this, not all cars in a roadrace wins but you wouldnt question wether or not the last to finish was a race car,lots of factors the biggest one being money decides that then i will say close second is the drivers skill.Before you disagree about the order i place them think about the best driver ever in the worst car of the race he may have a chance cause hes the best but probly the better car will win.

 

my mindset warrants a minimum of comfort traded in for speed. instead of definitons of racecar and commuter... i think this is what this discussion really boils down to, in terms of fast daily-drivers, the other question poised...

where do you put "too much"? personally, i think a coffee-can muffler is too far. and solid motor mounts are too far. and a 10k rpm redline is too far. a 2k rpm idle is too far. no a/c is too far, no p/s is too far. no sound-dampening is too far.

for me, it all boils down to how fast i can get it, but still retain the comforts of a retail car. for instance, the integra starts our a relatively timid car (sans type-r), with enough get-up-and-go for 90% of people that buy them. it has all kinds of creature-comforts that the engineers put in to make it please their target demographic.

now step to a car like the dodge viper. those dodge engineers knew their target demographic was incredibly different from, say, an integra's. vipers lose a lot of these creature-comforts, especially as far as sound goes--it has one of the loudest cabins in a production car. sure, they throw in a/c and p/s, but that's all to do with demographics--who's gonna spend 80k on a car without air?

now, back to my point. even if i had the money, i probably wouldn't buy a viper--b/c it's too hardcore for me. i don't want to have to yell to get my passenger's attention. i don't want my fillings in my teeth to fall out at idle. this is why i pick a car like an acura integra, and soup it up to my liking. i get to pick and choose which of these things i throw away. i picked my exhaust setup to be as quiet as possible (of course throwing out some of the free-flowing aspects of it), but still be functional. i chose a JRSC because it's relatively quiet, and it doesn't have the annoying high-pitched shrill of a turbo. i picked ES inserts, because they're stiff, but not *too* stiff. i got softsport springs because i don't like my butt to be sore after an hour ride.

how far is too far?

 

once you start replacing your tranny every other week then you have a race car.

 

Noise/Safety/Emissions/Comfort are all things that are overlooked in Racecars yet engineered in Commuters. If you're exhaust is loud - is it a race car? No. You have nothing but a loud exhaust. Just because you take the passenger seat out of your daily driver doesn't make it a race car. Just because you put a passenger seat in your race car doesn't mean it's a daily driver.

IMO- there are race cars that keep street legality just to compete in those classes. They can technically drive it on the street everyday. Do they? Probably not.

 

Wow, I must be like 'Mr. Super Complex Guy' or something ... I agree with much of what some of you said and some of what many of you said.

I can't afford to make my daily driven GSR into an all out, creature-comfortless weekend only autocrosser or drag trailer queen. Yet in still, I would still like it to be able to hold it's own in those arenas.

I am not willing to sacrifice a/c, powersteering, a reasonably quiet/comfortable ride, the lifespan of engine internals, tire tread longevity, my LEV status, and passenger/cargo carrying capabilities in the quest for performance. I simply can't afford to do it at this time. This car still has to be my daily driven 'grocery getter'. Someday, budget permitting, the Teg may become my weekend 'toy', if I acquire another daily driver. At that time it would no longer be a 'hobby' car with 'hobby' level mods, but a true 'project car' ... a car I could go all out with, if I wanted to. Perhaps, it would even qualify as a race car to some of you, then.

That said, even as a 'project car' I wouldn't want to gut the interior and have a non-streetable beast. Why can't I dip in both bowls of salsa? I believe that I can. Would it then be a 'true' race car? No, not really, but that wouldn't stop my father from calling it my 'race car' or my 'toy'. Nor would it stop me from enjoying it as such ( I enjoy it as a Formula Cart as she stands today ... or at least she's as close as I'll probably ever get to driving one).

Why am I still ranting on ... well, I guess I'm just expressing how I feel on the subject (isn't that what you wanted Mike D. ?).

Mike raises a good point, we (T-I.netters) need to get a grip ... too many of our number think that they can have a 'World Killer' of a Teg, and still have a daily driver. This just isn't true. While that isn't to say that some don't daily drive their 'World Killers', their's is not a comfortable or easy existince. People who do that make great sacrifices (and are just plain 'Hard Core').

We could debate this subject forever, and still people would have different views. That's why they call us individuals.

So what are my goals? I'd like to have a well rounded sleeper that I can daily drive, run at the 1/4 mile strip, and perhaps autocross. What modifications would I like to make, or do I think it will take to make that happen? Well briefly, (and in no particular order of importance or planned order of execution) they are as follows:

Wheel and tire upgrade ... 16 x 7 inch rims to accomodate a brake upgrade and allow me to run SO-3 Pole Positions. (I think that 17's and up are the stuff of show cars, at least where Teg's are concered.)
As mentioned above, brake upgrade (Bremo Gran Turismo set)
If any, a mild(very mild, like maybe 1 inch)drop.
Coilovers to allow for an improved autocrossing experience(I need to learn more about this first, though)
Comptech's 22mm rear swaybar/lower rear tiebar combo, front lower tiebar, and rear strut tower brace.
Forced induction (a turbo and all the required 'high end' upgrades to make it reliable and safe, running what, say 12lbs 'o boost daily) (hey, this post is too long already, I can't list all of that stuff here ... fuel, ignition, exhaust system {Hytech}, engine management, internals, and tuning)
A Quaife lsd and some kind of clutch upgrade, too.
Oh yeah, and I need to upgrade my stereo system too (and add some blue neon in the interior for 'wow' factor.

I think that just about does it. To me, those things would make my daily driver a 'racer', but not an all out 'racecar'.

 

all i wanna do is make my car an awd car and will be set thats it AWD teg thats my wish but i dont think it will happened

 

Definition of a RACECAR
race·car - An automobile used for racing.

Therefore at my home there are 3 "TRUE RACECARS"
A daily driven ocassionaly raced: 1994 Integra GSR
A daily drive OFTEN raced: 2001 Celica GT-s
and a barley driven often raced: 2000 Toyota MR2

 

Also the 2 most raced cars at my house are the Celica and the Toyota they both see an entire season of SOLO2 and several large track Time Trials and no mods on the celica the mr2 has. Saner Racing Development custom sway bar pro parts west race only custom struts and a borla exhuast those are the limitations for its class it and to me its a true racecar

 

if it was up to me, i'd already own a dodge viper. that aint happenin.

 

mmmmm viper i have a nice story about a super viper systems engineer in somebody elses viper getting arested after being really cool and talking to us importers

 

all i wanna do is make my car an awd car and will be set thats it AWD teg thats my wish but i dont think it will happened

And that makes it a race car how? Unless you are rallying, no sanctioning body in the world is going to accomodate you.

 

thats not very nice... and yes plenty of places would let him race... HEY PIKES PEEK you could allways race their HAHAHAA. but for real they probably would let people like that even into autocross

 

i think if your spending your money on making your car go faster and your racing the guy next to u at the red light... (like some poeple i know..bert) or going to philly doing some illegal racing your pretty much a racer.

 

if it were up to me I'd be drivin a McLaren F1 GT but that ain't about to happen in the near future for me either...

I'm not talking about whether you race your stock or near stock teg...

There is this notion out there that you can somehow convert your teg into an N/A low to mid 12 sec. car and still have a 60-100K mile reliable engine (and this has nothing to do with the way you drive the car hard) and drive around town at 2000-4800 rpm without sputtering like a chitty chitty bang bang, Beverly Hillbillies diesel truck on it's last legs.

This notion is pure fantasy. That was the point of the post.

 

You finally let the cat out of the bag. Amen, brotha.

 

It's all a mater of preception and priority. I personaly dont give a rat's ass if I have to cut the car off in the drive through at mickey d's because the 15 year old girls to scared to come to the window because of the nasty idle. I give an equal amount of care to hot floorboards or rattling change in the ashtray. What does bother the sh*t out of me is getting my doors blown off by anybody, anywhere. Ive been called crazy Ive been called hardcore, and i've even heard "that mod was stupid" or this mod is stupid". Theres no greater satisfaction than hearing that from someone that just got their ass handed to em'w/precision!

So, to simplify what im saying, if I have to contort myself into odd posisions to get into my car around a non swing away rollcage of if I have to be rolling to turn my car,or even if I have to adjust the lash on my (as it was in my sbc chevette)solid lifter cammed motor every 5000 miles at the expense of dominating the street by way of extreme ass whoopin's then so be it

 

Ok Mike D ... Since you seem to be fairly well versed in all of this, here's a question.

Lets say that I want to make my car as fast as possible via a turbo, but still want to have a pretty smooth idle and all of that. How fast of a car can theoretically be had running on street tires as a daily driver.

I can't do this now, so dollar amounts aren't really an issue, but do try to keep it reasonable.

I figure for arounds 10 grand, I should be able to get all of the high quality turbo upgrades and accessories (and the turbo of course) neccesary to make life comfortable in a fast daily driven Teg.

So just how much speed and power can I be looking to make out of my GSR. (This is a serious inquiry, I have learned a lot about things car related, but there is still much I have to learn ... Please share some of what you've got in the grey.)